KILLER: Tina Brown Part 02 | Pensacola, Florida 2010

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[SPEAKER_07]: Listener, released with this episode is going to be a free fireside chat and I'm going to release one next episode as well.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Just to give you guys a taste of what you're missing on the Patreon that just isn't black label because there's other stuff that gets released there too.

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[SPEAKER_07]: If you'd like to hear more, head to patreon.com so I should obscure a crime podcast.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Listener, this is part two of Tina Brown's story.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Though story feels like the wrong word.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Stories imply distance and shape and some faint notion of order.

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[SPEAKER_07]: In the first part, I walked through the wasteland, Tina came from, the early rot that clung to her like a second skin.

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[SPEAKER_07]: I traced the fault lines she inherited.

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[SPEAKER_07]: The small cruelty she learned before she had the language to name them.

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[SPEAKER_07]: But back story.

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[SPEAKER_07]: is only the soft-lit hallway that leads to the locked room.

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[SPEAKER_07]: And tonight, we open the door.

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[SPEAKER_07]: This episode enters the place where damage begins to animate itself.

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[SPEAKER_07]: We're old grievances stopping thoughts and hurdles into action.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Tina lived among three other women.

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[SPEAKER_07]: All of them adrift.

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[SPEAKER_07]: All of them, carrying private ruin, they shared walls, secrets, suspicions, the belief that betrayal was the only reliable currency.

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[SPEAKER_07]: In such a place, even a quiet afternoon feels like an animal holding its breath.

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[SPEAKER_07]: I will not reveal the final ledger here.

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[SPEAKER_07]: This is just an intro.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Not the full measure of what was done, nor how long the night lasted.

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[SPEAKER_07]: But this is the episode where every hidden impulse steps into the open.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Where Tina Brown ceases to merely be a product of her environment, her past, and becomes an instrument of torment.

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[SPEAKER_07]: What we approach now is not just violence, but a final moral collapse.

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[SPEAKER_07]: So complete, no one involved, living or dead, can ever return to the person they were before.

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[SPEAKER_07]: This is the descent, and once taken, there is no path back to white.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Let's get on with it.

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[SPEAKER_06]: Welcome, listener.

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[SPEAKER_06]: I'm glad you're here.

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[SPEAKER_06]: Take a seat.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Next to the fire.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Heather saying that she sees the taser in your house and that Britain has it and that Britain is driving it onward is right now.

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[SPEAKER_05]: It's in my evidence locker.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Well, what do why?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Why do we have it?

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[SPEAKER_05]: Because Heather says you have it and because Adriana says she was attased with it.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Well, we get a tailor from, we don't even know nobody here.

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[SPEAKER_04]: We don't have no family here.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Like people we know as a people in the trailer park.

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[SPEAKER_04]: We'll get a tailor from.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_05]: You might have my all over the place.

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[SPEAKER_05]: They sell them in pawn shops and everywhere else all over the place.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Look at your check and see if we bought one there.

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[SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't matter, you've got to give him to you from a friend, do you really think that that's going to matter?

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[SPEAKER_05]: I probably couldn't find the Adrian as well, one either.

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[SPEAKER_04]: You didn't lie it.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Well, that boy gave it to me.

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[SPEAKER_07]: In March of 2010, Skambia County lay under a heat that had not yet reached the height of summer, but already clung to the trees like something watchful and intent.

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[SPEAKER_07]: The nights were thick and slow, the days smelled of wet earth and the fame metallic tang of the golf.

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[SPEAKER_07]: On the far edge of Pensacola, a mobile home park sagged against the landscape, pressed down by humidity and time.

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[SPEAKER_07]: The gravel lanes moved like pale scars through the sand.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Trailer's leans slightly on their sinderblocks stillness.

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[SPEAKER_07]: As if the soil beneath them had shifted in the dark, well, no one was looking.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Porsche lights flickered without rhythm.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Dogs barked at shadows they could not name.

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[SPEAKER_07]: It was the sort of place where quiet was never peace, but a pause between each storm.

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[SPEAKER_07]: In the cramped pocket of homes, live four women whose lives circled around one another with jointed and volatile closeness, Tina Brown kept to a trailer whose aluminum sightings had been dented by years of storms.

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[SPEAKER_07]: A few lots of way, depending on who remember the layout, lived her 16-year-old daughter, Brittany Miller.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Across the way, we're heavily in 20-year-old

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[SPEAKER_07]: A young mother whose presence would soon not be tolerated any longer, that first glance, they formed a loose constellation of struggling companionship.

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[SPEAKER_07]: They traded cigarettes in rights to town.

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[SPEAKER_07]: They let one another pots, laundry detergent, stories that ran too long, worry spoken with easy exhaustion of poverty.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Neighbors and places like this often exist in a kind of accidental family tied together by circumstance more than affection.

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[SPEAKER_07]: But beneath the surface, the soil of this friendship was already turning sour.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Their wives were threaded with suspicion, slides real and imagine, grudges that grew faster than forgiveness, and the hard truth that each of them carried wounds that made even simple kindness fragile.

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[SPEAKER_07]: There were nights when there left or drifted down the gravel road in a sign of normalcy.

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[SPEAKER_07]: But even then, something brittle lived in the air around them, attention that had no single source, a pressure that built slowly.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Almost invisibly, until it became a living thing.

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[SPEAKER_07]: The bond between Brown and Miller and Zimmerman was in a state of quickening decay.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Their interactions carried a restless edge, as if compassion and hatred were constantly trading places.

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[SPEAKER_05]: This in lady is our crime scene tech.

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[SPEAKER_05]: We need to take photos from back all around that's one thing.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Also at this time I'm requesting DNA.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Would you submit to DNA?

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[SPEAKER_06]: What is that?

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[SPEAKER_05]: It's, you know, how is it?

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[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, just yeah.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Buckle swabs, too.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Put your mouth.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Is that fine?

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[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Well, let me know that I real quick and I'll let you take pictures.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Brown accused Zimmerman of slashing her tires, Zimmerman accused Brown of smashing the window of her car.

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[SPEAKER_07]: They were murmurs about cheating, whispers of men passed back and forth.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Accusations of betrayal, spoken through cracked phone screens.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Zimmerman believed Brown had reported her to the Florida Department of Children and Families.

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[SPEAKER_07]: claiming she was not caring for her children properly.

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[SPEAKER_07]: She was led to a soon that Tina Brown had done this.

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[SPEAKER_07]: She would be correct.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Every rumor and petty act layered on itself over the last, in much of a true, like dry vegetation gathering in the understory of a forest waiting for a spark.

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[SPEAKER_07]: The women were interwinged, and perhaps too alike.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Heather Weespef, far too many afternoon trying to pull Tina and Zimmerman apart.

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[SPEAKER_07]: They're angered towards each other.

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[SPEAKER_07]: who fast and unpredictable, fed by jealousy and youthful recklessness.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But I've got people talking.

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[SPEAKER_03]: that you called them and told them what happened.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You're trying to get up so soon as you get your car back.

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[SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm telling you, I didn't want you guys to say it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't tell them you were going to get out of town, soon as you got your car back.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Why don't you want to say that?

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[SPEAKER_03]: I ain't talked to those guys.

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[SPEAKER_04]: My dad didn't want to tell us.

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[SPEAKER_04]: If I did us, me and my daughter come down there if you said because you guys don't have any family here.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Stuff like this happened.

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[SPEAKER_04]: You don't have nowhere to go.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Where's your dad from?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Then he said Ohio.

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[SPEAKER_04]: It's really familiar to know it.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Then he told me that he talked to you guys, no, we had called him, he said he was going to send us me and my daughter money to come down there this Wednesday, okay?

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[SPEAKER_04]: So I call him that, why have my daughter called him, that Tuesday night at Assa was just still going to send us money.

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[SPEAKER_04]: He said, well, no, I've talked to them down there and they said that you guys can't go anywhere.

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[SPEAKER_04]: We won't tell we couldn't go anyway.

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[SPEAKER_04]: He mentioned that to me.

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[SPEAKER_04]: After that, I customized my hair from no more.

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[SPEAKER_04]: We didn't, we didn't, we won't tell that we couldn't go nowhere.

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[SPEAKER_04]: He didn't want to say that we need, we should, we should get from down here because we don't have any family here.

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[SPEAKER_07]: One fight carved itself into memory, Tina had found out that Zimmerman had been sleeping with her daughter's boyfriend.

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[SPEAKER_07]: The knowledge worked through like a poison.

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[SPEAKER_07]: She saw Zimmerman with a kind of bind fury that makes a person forget the difference between impulse and consequence.

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[SPEAKER_07]: And when she lunged, Zimmerman reacted without thought, drawing a stun gun, and firing it and trembling self defense.

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[SPEAKER_07]: It was a small action, a desperate tool used in fear, but a certain motion, a chain of events that could not be undone.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Later that day, when he asked Brown, if she could put up with this brazen at, she spoke plainly, Brown listened.

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[SPEAKER_07]: She rolled it over in her mind, Tina Brown responded with a simple sentence.

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[SPEAKER_07]: She said she was going to get Zimmerman.

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[SPEAKER_07]: It was not spoken in rage.

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[SPEAKER_07]: It was not shouted.

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[SPEAKER_07]: It was delivered with a calm certainty that hinted at something cold beneath the words.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I heard that you felt like you heard how can you go on here and say but and but you don't want to hear what I say that's supposed to be here.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Say so what what difference is I need to lower your tone when you're talking about that I should be all you want lower you don't when you talk to me you want to hear what I have to say I don't care if you say I walk out this room it don't make enough nothing to me.

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[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know you know I don't care to know you okay.

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[SPEAKER_05]: But you talking to somebody and telling them that well she

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[SPEAKER_05]: You don't be good to go.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that ain't the case, is it?

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[SPEAKER_05]: Because she died.

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[SPEAKER_05]: She died last night.

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[SPEAKER_05]: She comes to her wounds.

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[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, well, that's pretty funny.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so you sit here and play all these little games you want to, you want to help be able to help you set.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You won't somebody be able to tell your side of the story what happened last night, and but you sitting here copying this badass attitude is not helping nothing.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not helping you, Brittany, or anybody else involved in it.

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[SPEAKER_04]: They told us that she was in a coma yesterday.

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[SPEAKER_03]: She loved last night.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Why do you think we come back out of like gangbusters?

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[SPEAKER_03]: That's what you're doing.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That's what you're doing.

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[SPEAKER_04]: That's what you're doing.

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[SPEAKER_04]: What do you tell us that?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Who?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, how long is Jean?

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[SPEAKER_04]: His dad.

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[SPEAKER_04]: He said he called down there and he said that she wasn't the people to come.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Well, she didn't come out of him.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Oh.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Guess what?

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[SPEAKER_03]: We got information for him, me.

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[SPEAKER_03]: that she didn't make it because of the barn.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Now you sit there, you think about it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You think about what we're saying, that one of those kids would never see their mom again.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You've got a chance to see your kids.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Think I don't know that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You've got a chance to see your kids again somewhere down the road.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Now, like I said, I'm not going to say, we're not going to sit here with you as long as we did last night.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So, if you got nothing to say, we're going to be in that again tonight, y'all already got me to pick it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Now, you know, if I got you to pick it, we just got you charged.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Everybody got me to pick it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it was supposed to go down.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So, you want to tell the James up, if you want to tell the James up, you want to tell the James up.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

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[SPEAKER_05]: If you don't want to talk to us, do you want to talk to us without your friends or you want to talk to us with you, lo you?

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[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no, we need to know this, but you never burning my eyes, what is that?

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[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

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[SPEAKER_07]: So let's do that, you ready to go?

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[SPEAKER_07]: Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-

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[SPEAKER_07]: No arguments in the street, but something had shifted, something noted, and the air carried the uneasy stillness of a match, lying beside Kiddling, on March 24th, just after darkness settled across the park, Brown extended an invitation to Zimmerman, she offered it.

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[SPEAKER_07]: As a gesture of reconciliation, a chance to mend fences, the wet past grievances fade, but the invitation had been shaped long before the words were spoken.

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[SPEAKER_07]: It was a war, listener, crafted with care and intention.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Inside Brown's trailer, the preparations had already begun.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Brown, Miller, Lee, and a 13-year-old friend of Miller's gathered in the cramped interior.

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[SPEAKER_07]: The trailer smelled of Old Winolium and damp cabinets.

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[SPEAKER_07]: The single overhead white in the kitchen casts long thin shadows that stretch across the countertops.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Brown held the stun gun in her hand.

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[SPEAKER_07]: We stood with her, explaining how to use it, demonstrating the quick snap of the trigger.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Another part of the trailer, Miller-Ween closed to her young friend, her tone was soft, almost gentle, but the meaning of her words settled in the room like a cold wind.

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[SPEAKER_07]: We are fixing to kill Audrey on a Zimmerman.

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[SPEAKER_07]: It was the sort of sentence that does not feel real when first heard.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Dang it a lot, I'm saying, you know, things get out of hand.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe you didn't mean for the be this way, but that's what I say.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We don't know.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So you're going to need, you need us to be able to tell your sides of story when it comes time to go for the judge.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And by you just sitting over there, not, you know, thinking we don't have nothing.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We've only gave you a little bit of what we got.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And believe me, it's not all, it's not here, say.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We know that night, those clothes were taken and burned, the jaw were wearing.

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[SPEAKER_04]: We're wearing wear.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That's good.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I was going to have the same clothes on the next morning when they came to get us.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, when they came to get Britney.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I told her, no you're not, I'm making it up because I told her the same thing somebody is trying to set me up because the first it was supposed to be out three of us then it was four of us now seem like everything has been tried I don't know, these are four, these are the paper on it, give you something that was supposed to have been for They were going for my surfing weren't, I don't think there was anything about four

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[SPEAKER_07]: A little after nine, Zimmerman approached the trailer.

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[SPEAKER_07]: The night was cool for Wade March.

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[SPEAKER_07]: She stepped inside with the easy trust of someone who believed the offer of peace.

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[SPEAKER_07]: The women spoke casually.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Their voice is soft and almost friendly.

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[SPEAKER_07]: There was nothing to warn her.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Nothing to suggest the violence coiled in the shadows of that room.

15:45.181 --> 15:46.082
[SPEAKER_07]: Then Brown moved.

15:46.503 --> 15:50.167
[SPEAKER_07]: The stun gun struck Zimmerman before she could rise from her seat.

15:50.547 --> 15:53.491
[SPEAKER_07]: Electricity seized her muscles and she crumpled.

15:53.891 --> 16:05.023
[SPEAKER_07]: A desperate cry tearing out from her, the crackling of the device filled the trailer, a sound that clung to the air like smoke, Brown continued to fire, unmoved by the desperate police.

16:05.424 --> 16:06.365
[SPEAKER_07]: The cries for help.

16:06.765 --> 16:10.870
[SPEAKER_07]: The thin walls did nothing to contain the terror,

16:10.951 --> 16:12.294
[SPEAKER_07]: The noise grew too loud.

16:12.755 --> 16:16.304
[SPEAKER_07]: Brown grabbed Zimmerman and dragged her across the floor into the bathroom.

16:16.745 --> 16:20.775
[SPEAKER_07]: The small space was swampy with heat and steam from an earlier shower.

16:21.216 --> 16:23.562
[SPEAKER_07]: Zimmerman's cries ricocheted off the tile.

16:23.963 --> 16:26.850
[SPEAKER_07]: Noor, trembling with adrenaline, struck her.

16:26.830 --> 16:29.032
[SPEAKER_07]: We forced a sock into our mouth.

16:29.353 --> 16:31.515
[SPEAKER_07]: The room felt like it was tumbling inward.

16:31.976 --> 16:33.777
[SPEAKER_07]: The women hold Zimmerman outside.

16:33.818 --> 16:38.282
[SPEAKER_07]: The sky above the tree line looked heavy, as if weighed down by the dark.

16:38.583 --> 16:40.905
[SPEAKER_07]: They forced her toward the trunk of Brown's car.

16:41.266 --> 16:44.409
[SPEAKER_07]: The metal slams shut with a final and merciless sound.

16:47.272 --> 16:49.815
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a, have you ever heard of a dying declaration?

16:50.556 --> 16:50.756
[SPEAKER_03]: No.

16:52.237 --> 16:52.838
[SPEAKER_03]: That's powerful.

16:58.488 --> 16:59.509
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna tell you now.

17:01.052 --> 17:06.580
[SPEAKER_03]: When we walk out this door of this afternoon, there's not gonna, next time you see me, we'll be in the water.

17:06.600 --> 17:07.601
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll be in the water.

17:07.621 --> 17:07.962
[SPEAKER_03]: Get the waggle.

17:09.624 --> 17:11.847
[SPEAKER_03]: I ain't gonna roll up so, right?

17:13.229 --> 17:16.534
[SPEAKER_03]: But you, but what I'm saying, yeah, you're not going home today, right?

17:16.614 --> 17:23.605
[SPEAKER_03]: But what I'm trying to tell you, the next time you see me and this officer here will be in a courtroom, okay?

17:24.566 --> 17:26.689
[SPEAKER_03]: And when they call us to the stand,

17:27.850 --> 17:31.295
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be beneficial to you for us to be able to tell your side of the story.

17:33.277 --> 17:35.780
[SPEAKER_03]: You won't somebody to be able to tell your side of the story.

17:39.145 --> 17:39.445
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not.

17:39.485 --> 17:41.648
[SPEAKER_03]: We just didn't pick you out of the order.

17:42.069 --> 17:43.691
[SPEAKER_03]: Just go after her because she's miles down.

17:43.751 --> 17:44.652
[SPEAKER_03]: She's got no relatives.

17:44.672 --> 17:45.734
[SPEAKER_03]: I know you did.

17:45.954 --> 17:54.465
[SPEAKER_03]: And as far as all this crap about you here and from the train park, always one happened here in the past that you throw that off the window too.

17:56.403 --> 17:59.547
[SPEAKER_05]: And the funny thing is, everyone we talked to on this case all have a different story.

17:59.807 --> 18:21.212
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

18:26.660 --> 18:36.276
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I'm going to tell you what's going to happen, and that's the turn he's going to tell me not the same thing.

18:36.296 --> 18:36.476
[SPEAKER_03]: What?

18:36.496 --> 18:37.037
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a water.

18:37.698 --> 18:38.960
[SPEAKER_03]: Huh?

18:39.000 --> 18:39.200
[SPEAKER_03]: What?

18:39.801 --> 18:40.422
[SPEAKER_03]: You want some water?

18:41.144 --> 18:42.606
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

18:42.626 --> 18:43.227
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

18:43.247 --> 18:44.189
[SPEAKER_03]: You haven't killed him?

18:44.209 --> 18:44.870
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't.

18:45.090 --> 18:46.272
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't want water?

18:47.382 --> 18:54.912
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you need some pipe towels or tissue, you know, okay, just take your time and get your enclosure.

19:02.642 --> 19:16.140
[SPEAKER_03]: I see it in your trip, your trip trying to protect somebody, you know what, you know who I'm thinking, I'm thinking you're protecting, you're just protecting Brittany.

19:20.761 --> 19:21.255
[SPEAKER_04]: God.

19:21.645 --> 19:22.098
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm.

19:23.275 --> 19:28.440
[SPEAKER_07]: Brown drove them from the trailer park, the headlights cutting through the trees and long-pale ribbons.

19:28.840 --> 19:35.226
[SPEAKER_07]: The road narrowed into sand and roots, leading them deeper into the woods, where the sounds of the world grew thin.

19:35.626 --> 19:42.672
[SPEAKER_07]: The 13-year-old was left behind, paralyzed and fear, watching the tail lights disappear as though they were sinking into the earth.

19:43.193 --> 19:47.237
[SPEAKER_07]: At the clearing, the trunk snapped open, the night held its breath.

19:47.697 --> 19:53.282
[SPEAKER_07]: Zimmerman tried to run, her limbs propelled by instinct alone, but she stumbled and

19:53.262 --> 19:55.024
[SPEAKER_07]: Brown and Miller dragged her down.

19:55.444 --> 19:57.326
[SPEAKER_07]: The stun gun firing again.

19:57.786 --> 20:00.549
[SPEAKER_07]: The crowbar rose and fell in frantic rhythm.

20:00.909 --> 20:01.930
[SPEAKER_07]: Taring the skin.

20:02.390 --> 20:03.832
[SPEAKER_07]: Brown went back to the car.

20:04.232 --> 20:06.454
[SPEAKER_07]: She returned carrying a gasoline can.

20:06.474 --> 20:08.376
[SPEAKER_07]: The smell filled the clearing.

20:08.916 --> 20:10.237
[SPEAKER_07]: Sharp and unmistakable.

20:11.018 --> 20:12.279
[SPEAKER_03]: How old are you?

20:12.299 --> 20:12.980
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry, no.

20:13.721 --> 20:15.042
[SPEAKER_03]: She still got a full life ready.

20:15.122 --> 20:15.382
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

20:16.423 --> 20:17.184
[SPEAKER_03]: There's still a chance.

20:18.765 --> 20:19.486
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't throw it away.

20:19.506 --> 20:20.687
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't throw that chance away.

20:22.051 --> 20:24.013
[SPEAKER_03]: Britney still had the chance.

20:24.033 --> 20:28.119
[SPEAKER_03]: She's got her whole life ahead, or she went 15, 16, 16.

20:29.540 --> 20:33.826
[SPEAKER_03]: And my question, my next question, I'm going to let you talk, are you willing to take that chance?

20:34.266 --> 20:37.971
[SPEAKER_03]: Listen to me, are you willing to take the chance you've been getting ahead of her?

20:37.991 --> 20:45.601
[SPEAKER_03]: And y'all were willing to take that chance, you're going to come out of this smell like a rose without us telling your side story.

20:46.822 --> 20:47.603
[SPEAKER_03]: Do what?

20:49.355 --> 20:51.237
[SPEAKER_03]: You know I've only been here for eight months.

20:51.277 --> 20:51.658
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, ma'am.

20:54.121 --> 20:54.682
[SPEAKER_03]: Eight months.

20:56.324 --> 20:57.265
[SPEAKER_03]: I understand you left.

20:57.285 --> 20:59.027
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know it because you haven't.

20:59.468 --> 21:02.131
[SPEAKER_03]: You want to get away from the last hour that you ran up there.

21:08.740 --> 21:09.881
[SPEAKER_03]: Here you come down.

21:09.901 --> 21:10.963
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's your right back in it.

21:14.767 --> 21:18.332
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's somebody that was like,

21:18.616 --> 21:22.140
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, Tina, we told you what, we thought, we told you what we know.

21:23.262 --> 21:25.504
[SPEAKER_05]: We tell you all of it, we told you enough.

21:26.646 --> 21:33.374
[SPEAKER_05]: I think the real question is, we pretty much don't think you've been telling us the truth.

21:34.055 --> 21:36.738
[SPEAKER_05]: So, I mean, you know, that's what comes down to you.

21:37.699 --> 21:37.960
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

21:39.542 --> 21:42.926
[SPEAKER_05]: So, it comes down to that.

21:43.426 --> 21:44.027
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

21:44.067 --> 21:45.088
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?

21:45.389 --> 21:46.530
[SPEAKER_03]: It's decision time.

21:48.451 --> 21:49.773
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you want to help yourself?

21:51.415 --> 21:53.838
[SPEAKER_03]: Or do you want to go in the courtroom taking that chance?

21:55.540 --> 21:56.982
[SPEAKER_03]: All you want is the truth.

21:57.002 --> 21:57.803
[SPEAKER_03]: That's all I'm asking.

21:57.823 --> 21:59.045
[SPEAKER_03]: Just tell them, be honest with you.

21:59.065 --> 21:59.786
[SPEAKER_03]: Tell us the truth.

22:00.967 --> 22:03.731
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just because this happened, does this make you a bad person?

22:03.871 --> 22:04.472
[SPEAKER_03]: Not necessarily.

22:04.492 --> 22:05.273
[SPEAKER_06]: No.

22:05.293 --> 22:05.954
[SPEAKER_03]: Not necessarily.

22:06.234 --> 22:11.001
[SPEAKER_03]: But something tricks, something have might that in a triggered this type of reaction.

22:11.021 --> 22:11.782
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's all I want.

22:11.802 --> 22:13.704
[SPEAKER_03]: That's all we're wanting is the truth.

22:14.365 --> 22:15.927
[SPEAKER_03]: And I gain the truth.

22:16.463 --> 22:18.846
[SPEAKER_03]: or what will help you in the long run.

22:20.128 --> 22:25.355
[SPEAKER_05]: People usually don't believe it's when we tell them that until they realize I wish I talked to you that day.

22:26.076 --> 22:41.896
[SPEAKER_05]: And you can get up by the police, draw cases, everything about it, because the police said, I tell you, we got to wait for some lab results and stuff like that, but we told you the basics of what the case is, when you hide nothing, basics of the case is what we told you.

22:42.417 --> 22:46.302
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't go into every detail, but that's what it is.

22:46.383 --> 23:02.299
[SPEAKER_07]: Zimmerman tried to get away with even more frantic fear, but the crowbar and the stun gun came down again and again, then Tina Brown grabbed the can again and poured it over Zimmerman into the air itself seemed saturated with fumes.

23:02.279 --> 23:14.732
[SPEAKER_07]: Zimmerman cried out, as the gas stung the hot and her open wounds, she begged Tina Brown to let her live, that she wouldn't tell anyone, tears and snop poured from the injured woman, an open desperation.

23:15.133 --> 23:19.597
[SPEAKER_07]: Listener, there is no room for quiet dignity when you're soaked in gasoline.

23:20.198 --> 23:24.983
[SPEAKER_07]: Then, there was a sudden spark, the flame erupted bright against the dark brush.

23:25.644 --> 23:28.827
[SPEAKER_07]: We would later testify that Miller jumped beside her,

23:28.807 --> 23:40.734
[SPEAKER_07]: Screaming words that seemed to meant to erase any trace of humanity left in the moment, the woods swallowed the sound, holding in its branches, or, finally, Zimmerman spoke plainly as she burned.

23:41.055 --> 23:42.498
[SPEAKER_07]: It's not always like the movies.

23:42.919 --> 23:45.685
[SPEAKER_07]: She calmly begged the women to put her out.

23:45.665 --> 23:54.914
[SPEAKER_07]: As fire burned through layers of her skin, her voice rising gently from the flame, the girls left Zimmerman burning in the clearing and returned to the car.

23:55.294 --> 23:58.637
[SPEAKER_07]: The forest behind them shifted with a low-consuming light.

23:58.998 --> 24:03.922
[SPEAKER_07]: They drove away, leaving the young woman to endure something no person should ever face.

24:04.403 --> 24:08.687
[SPEAKER_07]: Zimmerman lay burning in the clearing, seemingly too injured and tired to move.

24:09.207 --> 24:15.013
[SPEAKER_05]: So they were why we arrested.

24:16.411 --> 24:20.216
[SPEAKER_05]: More than enough, a judge reviewed what we did and said agreed with us.

24:21.398 --> 24:21.518
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

24:21.538 --> 24:22.960
[SPEAKER_05]: And he decided what your bond would be.

24:22.980 --> 24:24.282
[SPEAKER_05]: We didn't get pick what your bond was.

24:24.863 --> 24:25.564
[SPEAKER_04]: Where's my bond?

24:25.624 --> 24:26.224
[SPEAKER_05]: No bond.

24:27.707 --> 24:31.131
[SPEAKER_05]: You'll be able to read their rest report when you go over there and booked in.

24:31.151 --> 24:32.373
[SPEAKER_05]: They'll let you have a copy of it.

24:34.496 --> 24:34.896
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

24:34.916 --> 24:38.341
[SPEAKER_05]: I see you saw that the channel three news.

24:38.802 --> 24:41.025
[SPEAKER_05]: If you went back to your trailer that you probably saw the topic.

24:41.045 --> 24:43.168
[SPEAKER_05]: We left of the surfboard.

24:43.188 --> 24:44.089
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what all they had.

24:44.575 --> 24:45.998
[SPEAKER_05]: So they had the copy of what?

24:46.018 --> 24:47.662
[SPEAKER_05]: The search warrant would let one of you trailer.

24:48.323 --> 24:49.125
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh.

24:49.145 --> 24:50.267
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you probably read it.

24:50.568 --> 24:51.390
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's all they had.

24:51.911 --> 24:53.274
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what they were reporting on.

24:53.855 --> 24:56.521
[SPEAKER_05]: It was filed with the court, so they took it and read from it.

24:57.904 --> 25:00.329
[SPEAKER_05]: So I mean, you probably saw the news, did you see the news?

25:01.832 --> 25:01.892
[UNKNOWN]: OK.

25:03.610 --> 25:18.214
[SPEAKER_07]: A third of a mile away, in the bruised hush of that human night, with the slight, uncharacteristic coolness in the air, Terrence Hendricks stepped out of his porch, the wooden slats creaked beneath him, like old bones settling into damp earth.

25:18.555 --> 25:27.289
[SPEAKER_07]: The air hung heavy, laced with the faint sound of insects humming, but something sharper cut through it now, a voice, thin, ragged.

25:27.269 --> 25:28.471
[SPEAKER_07]: drifted through to him.

25:29.033 --> 25:37.249
[SPEAKER_07]: At first, it seemed unreal, a trick of the mind, calling for help in fractured syllables that echoed off the trees.

25:37.830 --> 25:45.105
[SPEAKER_07]: He paused, straining his eyes against the dark, narrowing into the void where the road dissolved into shadow and sand.

25:45.606 --> 25:48.231
[SPEAKER_07]: Then he saw her, and then she emerged.

25:48.211 --> 25:51.155
[SPEAKER_07]: Zimmerman staggered forward from the woods.

25:51.616 --> 25:56.463
[SPEAKER_07]: Her form, a grotesque silhouette, against the faint glow of distant porch lights.

25:56.984 --> 26:00.890
[SPEAKER_07]: She moved with the labored grace of something dragged back from oblivion.

26:01.330 --> 26:03.133
[SPEAKER_07]: She was a dark effigy of pain.

26:03.554 --> 26:06.618
[SPEAKER_07]: Her body twisted into shapes that mocked the human frame.

26:07.059 --> 26:10.985
[SPEAKER_07]: Each step was a deliberate betrayal of flesh against her will.

26:11.405 --> 26:14.590
[SPEAKER_07]: Her skin

26:14.570 --> 26:19.477
[SPEAKER_07]: A sickening chorus of pops and hisses like what would, splintering and flame.

26:19.998 --> 26:37.084
[SPEAKER_07]: The charred surface of her skin split open and jagged lines to reveal the raw weeping underlayers beneath, pitch black dominated the surface of her body, a veil of carbonized ruin that clung like tar, her charred black skin was streaked with ghostly white.

26:37.064 --> 26:41.330
[SPEAKER_07]: where the deeper burns had peeled away to expose the palate, sinew, and bone.

26:41.731 --> 26:50.083
[SPEAKER_07]: Listening wetly, under the indifference stars, blisters had bloomed and burst in her wake, leaving trails of fluid that streaked her skin.

26:50.584 --> 26:53.889
[SPEAKER_07]: Her outline blurred into a nightmare of melted contours.

26:54.269 --> 27:02.481
[SPEAKER_07]: Her arms dangling like wilted branches, her face, a swollen mass, where features had softened and sagged into unrecognizable shapes.

27:02.461 --> 27:13.698
[SPEAKER_07]: From her ruin lips came low, gutteral moans, animal sounds of torment that rose and fell with each tortured breath, vibrating through the humid air like a dredge from the depths.

27:14.139 --> 27:25.937
[SPEAKER_07]: The smell hit him, before she reached the porch, a choking wave that coiled in as nostrils and lodged in his throat, it was the acrid bite of gasoline, sharp and chemical mingled.

27:25.917 --> 27:32.585
[SPEAKER_07]: with the deeper, more primal reek of scorched meat, like overcooked fat dripping on the cones.

27:33.065 --> 27:38.451
[SPEAKER_07]: This was laced with the metallic tang of blood and the sour undercurrent of cinched hair.

27:38.912 --> 27:43.397
[SPEAKER_07]: It was the odor of anguish distilled that spoke of fire's greedy hunger.

27:43.877 --> 27:54.169
[SPEAKER_07]: It's folk of the skin rendered to ash and agony, carrying with it the faint ghostly whisper of the cheap drugstore perfume Zimmerman had sprayed on herself that morning.

27:54.149 --> 28:00.942
[SPEAKER_07]: Hendrick were coiled instinctively, his stomach turned as the set wrapped around him, thick and inscapable.

28:01.323 --> 28:04.570
[SPEAKER_07]: It was a harbinger of suffering that now lurched into view.

28:04.970 --> 28:10.922
[SPEAKER_07]: She collapsed onto the edge of his porch, her body folding and bending and strange ways that seemed inhuman.

28:11.403 --> 28:15.972
[SPEAKER_07]: The crackling of her skin gave way to low-weasing moans with each breath.

28:15.952 --> 28:20.561
[SPEAKER_07]: Up close, the details etched themselves into his memory like acid on metal.

28:21.002 --> 28:24.750
[SPEAKER_07]: Her injury is so profound that race dissolved into relevance.

28:25.271 --> 28:36.373
[SPEAKER_07]: Her former dues to a universal emblem of torment, black and blistered and broken, she sat there rocking faintly, her arms extended in silent supplication.

28:36.353 --> 28:47.387
[SPEAKER_07]: As if praying to someone that only returned in difference, through the ruins of relips, she forced words, please for help, fragments of a story to horrific to hold shape.

28:47.868 --> 29:04.369
[SPEAKER_07]: Her voice was a rasping echo from the depths of what remained, in that moment, the night thickened around them, the woods held their secrets close, as if the earth itself had exiled this vision of hell to remind the living of the fragile

29:04.771 --> 29:05.773
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm on what's going on out there.

29:05.793 --> 29:06.515
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:06.715 --> 29:07.317
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:07.637 --> 29:08.158
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:08.178 --> 29:08.700
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:08.720 --> 29:09.241
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:09.261 --> 29:09.802
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:09.822 --> 29:10.363
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:10.383 --> 29:11.005
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:11.025 --> 29:11.766
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:11.786 --> 29:12.508
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:12.528 --> 29:13.049
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:13.069 --> 29:13.610
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:13.630 --> 29:14.151
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:14.171 --> 29:14.692
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:14.713 --> 29:15.234
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:15.254 --> 29:15.775
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:15.795 --> 29:16.456
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:16.476 --> 29:17.098
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:17.118 --> 29:17.739
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:17.759 --> 29:18.360
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:18.441 --> 29:19.042
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:19.062 --> 29:19.583
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:19.603 --> 29:20.164
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on out there?

29:20.184 --> 29:20.485
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on

29:20.650 --> 29:27.377
[SPEAKER_07]: At 9.24 pm, and EMT arrived, he found Zimmerman sitting upright, rocking gently.

29:27.858 --> 29:34.825
[SPEAKER_07]: Her arms extended, she didn't want to lower them from the pain, her skin was so damaged he could not tell if she were clothing.

29:35.306 --> 29:38.609
[SPEAKER_07]: Her jaw hung at an unnatural angle from the crowbar.

29:38.970 --> 29:43.775
[SPEAKER_07]: He tried to offer aid, but her wounds were beyond the reach of his training and equipment.

29:44.196 --> 29:46.298
[SPEAKER_07]: Her skin came away at his touch.

29:46.778 --> 29:50.202
[SPEAKER_07]: He had no supplies capable of covering what had been done to her.

29:50.182 --> 29:58.491
[SPEAKER_02]: She was kind of mown and she was just in a sitting position and the way she was looking was it hurt to move anywhere so she was kind of in whatever position she was most comfortable.

29:58.511 --> 30:00.473
[SPEAKER_02]: It was in a sitting where there are some stuck straight out.

30:01.014 --> 30:03.777
[SPEAKER_02]: She was mowning and it was hard to understand or do to her jaw.

30:03.897 --> 30:05.639
[SPEAKER_02]: Her jaw was very deformed and stuck out.

30:06.600 --> 30:10.884
[SPEAKER_02]: So she kept, you know, mumbling help me help me and I told her, you know, I'll try to help you.

30:11.865 --> 30:13.887
[SPEAKER_02]: You just got to stay there and try not to move for me.

30:15.369 --> 30:19.193
[SPEAKER_02]: Really with a burn victim like that, there's nothing much we can do until you

30:19.578 --> 30:28.011
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're training that experience when you saw or what was your first to ask the worst one I've seen I couldn't believe she was still conscious and alert with the amount of burns she had.

30:29.352 --> 30:30.915
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you feel her tradition was great?

30:31.396 --> 30:31.676
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes sir.

30:33.479 --> 30:35.682
[SPEAKER_02]: Just from your experience as you've seen.

30:35.702 --> 30:37.865
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes sir just from seeing that plus the head trauma.

30:39.087 --> 30:44.235
[SPEAKER_02]: The amount of head trauma she had to her face I would not have expected her to make it through the night.

30:44.495 --> 30:47.239
[SPEAKER_02]: She kept telling me she was I'm about to pass out I'm about to pass out.

30:47.759 --> 30:53.006
[SPEAKER_02]: So I told her to try to stay awake for me, and I wanted to get the info of the suspects before she passed out.

30:53.406 --> 30:54.467
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, listen, her.

30:55.008 --> 30:56.109
[SPEAKER_07]: She remained conscious.

30:56.650 --> 30:58.352
[SPEAKER_07]: She identified Brown and Lee.

30:58.753 --> 31:01.016
[SPEAKER_07]: She explained everything that had been done to her.

31:01.436 --> 31:03.338
[SPEAKER_07]: She begged them to protect her children.

31:03.779 --> 31:07.404
[SPEAKER_07]: Tina, in a heartbreaking moment, passed if she would live.

31:07.824 --> 31:09.786
[SPEAKER_07]: She said she thought they had made peace.

31:10.467 --> 31:12.270
[SPEAKER_07]: She said she thought they were friends again.

31:12.330 --> 31:16.635
[SPEAKER_07]: She held on to hopeful thoughts, even as her body failed her.

31:17.071 --> 31:19.533
[SPEAKER_08]: I referenced two of the applause.

31:19.553 --> 31:22.677
[SPEAKER_08]: We're on seeing the fire stand at the patient.

31:22.877 --> 31:27.261
[SPEAKER_08]: She's got to get burned over 100% of her body, but she's saying that there was no vehicle involved.

31:27.882 --> 31:31.005
[SPEAKER_08]: That people dragged her out of her house and set her on fire.

31:31.025 --> 31:38.733
[SPEAKER_07]: She was first taken to a local hospital, then flown to a burn center at the University of South Alabama Hospital in Mobile.

31:39.033 --> 31:39.974
[SPEAKER_00]: I told her to keep fighting.

31:40.695 --> 31:43.337
[SPEAKER_00]: And she kept saying, over and over again, am I going to make it?

31:43.417 --> 31:45.019
[SPEAKER_00]: And I told her I was going to try.

31:45.607 --> 31:55.992
[SPEAKER_00]: And she said, when I just tell me I'm going to wake up and see my babies, I got to talk into her and I told her that I was probably going to be the last person she talked to for a while and that we in order to catch the people that did this to her.

31:56.012 --> 32:02.147
[SPEAKER_00]: I need her to tell me if she knew it was and I asked her why they did it to her and she said, I thought we'd made up.

32:02.633 --> 32:04.235
[SPEAKER_07]: 16 days passed.

32:04.735 --> 32:05.736
[SPEAKER_07]: She did not survive.

32:06.177 --> 32:09.640
[SPEAKER_07]: Back to the night of, Brown and Miller returned to the trailer.

32:10.040 --> 32:13.904
[SPEAKER_07]: They stripped off their strained clothes and packed them into a trash bag.

32:14.305 --> 32:15.666
[SPEAKER_07]: We added her shoes.

32:16.247 --> 32:20.171
[SPEAKER_07]: Miller confided to her young friend, who sat suspended in shock.

32:20.651 --> 32:24.995
[SPEAKER_07]: Miller and the girl drove to the hospital so Miller could get treatment for her injured hand.

32:25.636 --> 32:32.623
[SPEAKER_07]: On the way, they threw the bag

32:32.603 --> 32:42.382
[SPEAKER_07]: While enforcement moved quickly, Brown and Lee were arrested that night, Miller the next day, they were released temporarily because Zimmerman was still alive.

32:42.863 --> 32:47.693
[SPEAKER_07]: During that time, Brown told her friend Pamela what had happened.

32:47.673 --> 32:54.391
[SPEAKER_07]: She were counted beating Zimmerman, forcing her into the car, driving to the clearing, setting her on fire.

32:54.832 --> 32:59.564
[SPEAKER_07]: When she learned Zimmerman had survived, she asked Pamela to finish the job.

32:59.986 --> 33:02.813
[SPEAKER_07]: Pamela refused and went to law enforcement.

33:02.793 --> 33:08.425
[SPEAKER_07]: This led to the real rest of all three women on April 9th, the day Zimmerman died.

33:08.966 --> 33:14.478
[SPEAKER_07]: At the crime scene, investigators found white shoes, a stun gun with blood on its handle.

33:14.980 --> 33:21.173
[SPEAKER_07]: Bloodstained paper, a multi-colored hair weave, a crowbar, a pool of blood.

33:21.153 --> 33:24.618
[SPEAKER_07]: Zimmerman's blood was found on the headrest of Brown's car.

33:25.098 --> 33:27.462
[SPEAKER_07]: Brown's own blood was on the stun gun.

33:27.842 --> 33:31.748
[SPEAKER_07]: The medical examiner ruled that Zimmerman died from multiple thermal injuries.

33:32.248 --> 33:34.011
[SPEAKER_07]: The manner of death was homicide.

33:34.611 --> 33:39.959
[SPEAKER_07]: On June 21, 2012, a jury convicted Tina Brown a first-degree murder.

33:40.379 --> 33:44.545
[SPEAKER_07]: On June 26, the unanimously recommended the death penalty.

33:44.525 --> 33:56.704
[SPEAKER_07]: At the Spencer hearing, Zimmerman's mother delivered a letter, the defense submitted records in a letter from one of Brown's friends, Brown apologized to Zimmerman's family, and acknowledged the horror of what have happened.

33:57.205 --> 34:01.912
[SPEAKER_07]: On September 20, 2012, the court sentenced Tina Brown to death.

34:02.353 --> 34:06.820
[SPEAKER_07]: The murder found to be too cold, calculated, premeditated.

34:06.800 --> 34:10.447
[SPEAKER_07]: It was deemed especially heinous, atrocious, cruel.

34:10.908 --> 34:13.172
[SPEAKER_07]: It was committed during the course of a kidnapping.

34:13.553 --> 34:14.335
[SPEAKER_07]: Three reasons.

34:14.816 --> 34:16.078
[SPEAKER_07]: Each given great weight.

34:16.519 --> 34:22.851
[SPEAKER_07]: Three reasons the court believed justified taking Brown's life and returned for the one she helped destroy.

34:24.923 --> 34:27.790
[SPEAKER_07]: Listener, this is where the road delivers us.

34:28.652 --> 34:35.869
[SPEAKER_07]: In the far edge of why human life can hold before it breaks, and to the moment where Tina Brown's story folds into silence.

34:36.330 --> 34:42.645
[SPEAKER_07]: The courts have spoken, the jurors have weighed their facts, the state has rendered its judgment yet.

34:42.625 --> 34:50.714
[SPEAKER_07]: Even as the machinery of justice grinds forward with its cold certainty, another truth hangs behind it, older and more difficult.

34:51.174 --> 35:07.992
[SPEAKER_07]: It is the truth that people are often shaped, but not always, long before they ever lift a hand in violence, shaped by the long strata of time and misuse that settle over them grain by grain, until they cannot remember when the weight first became unbearable.

35:07.972 --> 35:09.836
[SPEAKER_07]: He and Brown carried such a weight.

35:10.276 --> 35:15.226
[SPEAKER_07]: The years carved her down, marking her with the cold rhythmic of neglect and cruelty.

35:15.667 --> 35:19.254
[SPEAKER_07]: What she endured as a child did not simply vanish with age.

35:19.835 --> 35:20.736
[SPEAKER_07]: It pressed into her.

35:21.197 --> 35:23.642
[SPEAKER_07]: He came the lens through which she saw the world.

35:24.023 --> 35:24.664
[SPEAKER_07]: Listener.

35:24.644 --> 35:28.409
[SPEAKER_07]: a world that she learned early, that could not be trusted.

35:28.889 --> 35:44.949
[SPEAKER_07]: These things matter, they matter because harm leaves a residue, and often seeps into every decision, every relationship, every moment when anger rises like a time, but they do not absolve, they cannot excuse what she chose to do in that clearing.

35:45.389 --> 35:52.778
[SPEAKER_07]: A person's history explains many things, it does not erase the moment the match is struck, Tina Brown had options,

35:52.758 --> 36:02.913
[SPEAKER_07]: Even within the narrow corridors of her wife, Crant as they were by poverty and addiction, in the cruel handwriting of her past, there were paths that wound away from violence.

36:03.313 --> 36:05.897
[SPEAKER_07]: Hard paths, yes, I won't deny that.

36:06.278 --> 36:13.348
[SPEAKER_07]: Winding, uneven, merciless paths that required the kind of strength she may have never had been taught to cultivate.

36:13.328 --> 36:19.917
[SPEAKER_07]: But they existed all the same, and when the time came, she stepped not toward them, toward the darker trail.

36:20.418 --> 36:24.203
[SPEAKER_07]: The one warmed by rage and sharpened by the years of small betrayals.

36:24.584 --> 36:28.469
[SPEAKER_07]: The trail that ended with another woman burning alive in the Florida woods.

36:28.930 --> 36:32.916
[SPEAKER_07]: Her childhood may explain how the fire found dry timber in her heart.

36:33.316 --> 36:35.760
[SPEAKER_07]: It does not explain why she let it burn.

36:36.200 --> 36:40.146
[SPEAKER_07]: The court records will tell you that the murder was cold and calculated.

36:40.126 --> 36:45.036
[SPEAKER_07]: That it possessed a cruelty that set it apart from the usual savagery of human conflict.

36:45.377 --> 36:50.307
[SPEAKER_07]: They list aggravating factors and careful sequence, turning horror into legal phrasing.

36:50.868 --> 36:54.255
[SPEAKER_07]: That's though clarity could somehow be extracted from carnage.

36:54.275 --> 36:57.822
[SPEAKER_07]: But there is no legal language large enough to hold what happened.

36:58.263 --> 37:00.227
[SPEAKER_07]: No statute or sentence.

37:00.207 --> 37:03.793
[SPEAKER_07]: that can channel the enormity of that night into something manageable.

37:04.174 --> 37:06.017
[SPEAKER_07]: The survivors, the families.

37:06.578 --> 37:14.491
[SPEAKER_07]: The children that were left behind, they will carry the scar beyond any judgment rendered in the fluorescent light-lit courtroom.

37:14.892 --> 37:17.777
[SPEAKER_07]: Time will move and different and untrubbled.

37:17.757 --> 37:22.529
[SPEAKER_07]: grinding forward with the same slow weight that once pressed down on Tina Brown herself.

37:22.809 --> 37:25.315
[SPEAKER_07]: But unlike her, they have no choice in the matter.

37:25.356 --> 37:27.300
[SPEAKER_07]: Time will not show them mercy.

37:27.822 --> 37:32.373
[SPEAKER_07]: It will simply demand that they continue to walk while the memory keeps pace behind them.

37:32.974 --> 37:34.939
[SPEAKER_07]: Silent, unblinking.

37:34.919 --> 37:52.349
[SPEAKER_07]: And Tina, mocked away as the years drained from her wife, like water from a cracked vessel, will face time in its other form, time as punishment, time as witness, time as the long and merciless mirror, in which she will not only see what she became, but what she could have been.

37:52.409 --> 37:55.734
[SPEAKER_07]: She had her diploma, she had her wits about her.

37:56.075 --> 37:59.661
[SPEAKER_07]: The path she did not take will live beside the

37:59.641 --> 38:05.411
[SPEAKER_07]: Running parallel forever, whenever again within reach, that is its own kind of sentence.

38:05.831 --> 38:08.456
[SPEAKER_07]: There's a point at which all stories begin to taper.

38:08.836 --> 38:13.544
[SPEAKER_07]: We're explanation no longer serves and reflection becomes little more than sifting ash.

38:14.065 --> 38:15.988
[SPEAKER_07]: Listener, we have reached that point.

38:16.429 --> 38:21.818
[SPEAKER_07]: We have followed the currents of violence and history and choice to the place where the trail simply ends.

38:21.798 --> 38:27.366
[SPEAKER_07]: There's no less in here, bright enough to illuminate the dark, no moral tidy enough to absolve the living.

38:27.807 --> 38:38.963
[SPEAKER_07]: Only the Stark knowledge that a wife marked by harm can still create far greater harm, and that suffering passed down through generations is not justified suffering inflicted in a single night.

38:38.943 --> 38:45.681
[SPEAKER_07]: All that remains now is the stillness after the telling, the final breath of a narrative that has exhausted its horrors.

38:46.202 --> 38:54.825
[SPEAKER_07]: The woods remain, the trailer park remains, the memory of a young woman walking out of the darkness burned in a frayed remains.

38:54.805 --> 39:00.672
[SPEAKER_07]: Tina Brown remains too, though nothing in her future can rewrite it what is already carved into her past.

39:01.032 --> 39:02.314
[SPEAKER_07]: This is the end of her story.

39:02.834 --> 39:05.117
[SPEAKER_07]: Not a clean end, not a comforting one.

39:05.617 --> 39:13.707
[SPEAKER_07]: Only the grim certainty that some acts cast a shadow deep enough that even time, with all its crushing weight, and not wear it away.

39:14.608 --> 39:23.698
[SPEAKER_07]: Thank you for listening, and keep the fire burning.

39:24.168 --> 39:30.302
[SPEAKER_07]: So, this is the first and a reboot of my Q&A fireside chats.

39:31.184 --> 39:43.611
[SPEAKER_07]: I've been saying for a while that I've been collecting questions that I put away in a document and I keep for fireside chats and over the years those have built up.

39:44.266 --> 39:52.251
[SPEAKER_07]: And just recently, I created a new thread in the comments or a mocked, and that's to promote DMing me.

39:52.853 --> 39:58.090
[SPEAKER_07]: So I make sure I see these questions and can add it to the document.

39:58.222 --> 40:03.490
[SPEAKER_07]: So, before I get started on this Q&A episode, do me a favor.

40:03.550 --> 40:07.275
[SPEAKER_07]: If you want, fire off any question you have.

40:07.976 --> 40:09.539
[SPEAKER_07]: It can be related to true crime.

40:09.959 --> 40:11.522
[SPEAKER_07]: It can be related to anything.

40:12.283 --> 40:20.275
[SPEAKER_07]: And if you want, include whatever name you'd like me to call you, or leave a name out if you don't want me to call you anything.

40:20.855 --> 40:21.917
[SPEAKER_07]: That's fine.

40:22.420 --> 40:38.047
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay, and just so you're aware, the methodology of this is random in that I have a document full of questions and when I pick them out, I just sort of scan through them and grab, you know, three or four.

40:39.148 --> 40:43.456
[SPEAKER_07]: And there you go, that's enough to put together a fire side chat.

40:44.397 --> 40:47.162
[SPEAKER_07]: Now, let's get to question one.

40:47.851 --> 40:56.464
[SPEAKER_07]: question one says, I was actually wanting to ask if researching these topics, if you ever begin to feel unsettled to the core.

40:57.145 --> 41:02.954
[SPEAKER_07]: When I listen to some of them, it just puts me off, like, I am being watched or anxious.

41:03.696 --> 41:05.038
[SPEAKER_07]: Do you ever feel this way?

41:05.979 --> 41:07.281
[SPEAKER_07]: And that's from a bow.

41:08.203 --> 41:09.825
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, thank you, bow.

41:10.143 --> 41:31.358
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I mean, especially early on, um, I felt this way of what, uh, the porn episode is an example of that, uh, it was really getting under my skin and, uh, I was wearing headphones and making sure no one could hear what I was listening to, uh, when we were searching that episode, but also just, uh,

41:32.047 --> 41:43.044
[SPEAKER_07]: I think a lot of times when I'm wanting to write an episode, you know, really do the top-to-bottom research and, you know, create the narrative surrounding a case.

41:43.725 --> 41:48.132
[SPEAKER_07]: I want to submerge myself into the mock.

41:48.112 --> 42:13.562
[SPEAKER_07]: and try to capture whatever I'm feeling in my writing so then later when I go to record I can then transfer that negative energy into the episode because I do like obscure and black label to be kind of dark for me that was the type of true crime I grew up liking and so I liked to capture that feeling.

42:13.542 --> 42:37.305
[SPEAKER_07]: And so yeah, I, you know, I can get unsettled, especially particularly upsetting 911 calls, things like that, strangely enough, I, you know, I find the 911 calls or body camp footage a little bit more unsettling than just the straight up, you know.

42:37.285 --> 42:39.528
[SPEAKER_07]: visual gore, if that makes sense.

42:40.048 --> 42:43.832
[SPEAKER_07]: For me, it's the being forced to use your imagination.

42:44.433 --> 42:47.997
[SPEAKER_07]: That connects that bridge of empathy for me easier.

42:48.858 --> 42:49.979
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.

42:50.200 --> 42:51.181
[SPEAKER_07]: Maybe that's just me.

42:51.661 --> 42:55.285
[SPEAKER_07]: If you feel that way, you know, maybe comment.

42:56.667 --> 42:56.987
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay.

42:57.828 --> 42:59.530
[SPEAKER_07]: Question number two.

42:59.915 --> 43:01.438
[SPEAKER_07]: Hey Justin, it's Rich.

43:02.219 --> 43:07.868
[SPEAKER_07]: I may have asked you this when you were on my show, but maybe not as direct as I will now.

43:07.888 --> 43:14.179
[SPEAKER_07]: Is there a story you covered that made you lose sleep or even actually get emotional?

43:14.920 --> 43:17.144
[SPEAKER_07]: In the answer to that is yes.

43:19.228 --> 43:21.872
[SPEAKER_07]: Recently, there was the...

43:22.156 --> 43:30.844
[SPEAKER_07]: sequel to the porn episode that I did called the Baki Adendum, our Baki Adendum, however you want to pronounce it.

43:32.105 --> 43:49.682
[SPEAKER_07]: And that was where basically someone I was going to interview when I finally was ready to interview them, they were deceased and they had committed suicide because the experience that they went through,

43:50.236 --> 43:56.432
[SPEAKER_07]: was so disturbing and had ruined their life and had traumatized them for so long.

43:56.492 --> 44:03.992
[SPEAKER_07]: And when I recorded that episode, that was one of the rare, you know, sort of main episodes.

44:04.327 --> 44:10.296
[SPEAKER_07]: that was totally off the cuff without writing completely from the heart.

44:11.117 --> 44:24.276
[SPEAKER_07]: And I just kind of poured myself emotionally into that episode because I felt absolutely horrible for this person.

44:24.644 --> 44:26.847
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I just wanted to express that.

44:27.587 --> 44:43.506
[SPEAKER_07]: And then, you know, I've mentioned this one a lot, but the Caitlyn Nicole Davis episode, that one was bad enough that for a brief period, I had to hire someone else to write the Black Label episodes.

44:44.747 --> 44:46.349
[SPEAKER_07]: This was years ago, of course.

44:46.930 --> 44:48.812
[SPEAKER_07]: But, um,

44:49.282 --> 45:15.576
[SPEAKER_07]: I think watching hundreds of hours of Caitlyn Nicole Davis's livestreams, just I really felt like I got to know her and since I was doing everything in such order and it was such a time-consuming experience that when I got to the end and I watched that video of this

45:15.927 --> 45:40.197
[SPEAKER_07]: and those of fuckers in the chat that are telling her to show her tits and every other kind of awful thing to say to try to exploit someone that is at their wits end, that had parents that didn't seem to care about them, that had no one in their life that wanted to help her.

45:40.177 --> 45:48.527
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, when I was working on that episode, there wasn't an instance of it where I was able to disconnect myself emotionally.

45:49.127 --> 45:59.960
[SPEAKER_07]: And so, if you ever go back and you listen to the Cayland Nicole Davis episode, you can actually essentially hear me crying by the end of that episode, because I go totally off-script.

46:00.520 --> 46:05.526
[SPEAKER_07]: And for once, there's actually a bit of a rant at the end there.

46:06.383 --> 46:13.561
[SPEAKER_07]: And so, yeah, Nikkele and Nicole Davis episode absolutely haunted me.

46:14.303 --> 46:16.288
[SPEAKER_07]: And you know what, maybe it should have.

46:16.709 --> 46:20.398
[SPEAKER_07]: I definitely experienced PTSD from that episode.

46:21.301 --> 46:22.283
[SPEAKER_07]: And, uh,

46:22.263 --> 46:26.769
[SPEAKER_07]: I think I came out from the other side of that episode a better person.

46:27.410 --> 46:33.078
[SPEAKER_07]: I think sometimes it's worth feeling empathy for someone to the point that it ruins you.

46:33.698 --> 46:42.270
[SPEAKER_07]: Maybe that's a controversial opinion, but I think those moments in my life where I'm just absolutely wrecked with empathy.

46:42.911 --> 46:47.477
[SPEAKER_07]: In the fact that I just feel so horrific for someone are just so

46:47.457 --> 46:51.125
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know that, that negative energy transfers on to me.

46:51.586 --> 46:54.393
[SPEAKER_07]: I come out the other side of that a better person.

46:55.375 --> 47:04.977
[SPEAKER_07]: And so yeah, to answer your question, rich, there have been episodes that I've lost sleep over.

47:05.092 --> 47:10.877
[SPEAKER_07]: Question number three, I just read your invite to ask a question and I had one.

47:11.638 --> 47:18.605
[SPEAKER_07]: Growing up, first world poor, we lived in poor neighborhoods and crime was always a kind of thing.

47:19.425 --> 47:26.472
[SPEAKER_07]: My first experience of neighborhood violence was at the age of six or so when I woke up to shouting across the street.

47:27.333 --> 47:32.938
[SPEAKER_07]: My neighbor had caught someone breaking into their home and beat them to death in their driveway.

47:33.863 --> 47:36.662
[SPEAKER_07]: I saw the blood in Goor and all that goes with it.

47:37.267 --> 47:39.925
[SPEAKER_07]: It never bothered me at the time.

47:41.255 --> 47:52.276
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm sorry, as time went on, I saw many other things, including police shooting, and escaped prison and made, in missing, hitting him in the jaw, blowing most of his face off.

47:52.917 --> 47:54.420
[SPEAKER_07]: Still, didn't bother me.

47:55.221 --> 48:04.579
[SPEAKER_07]: I grew up to work in healthcare, and wonder if my ability to see traumatic events and still do my job was influenced by some of these events.

48:04.863 --> 48:07.085
[SPEAKER_07]: Have you had any similar events in childhood?

48:07.626 --> 48:11.389
[SPEAKER_07]: Could they have led to your interest in the macabre side of violent crime?

48:12.410 --> 48:15.153
[SPEAKER_07]: You are welcome to call me Josh.

48:15.173 --> 48:17.796
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, Josh, yeah, no, absolutely.

48:17.876 --> 48:19.217
[SPEAKER_07]: I think that's influenced you.

48:19.738 --> 48:21.219
[SPEAKER_07]: And I think it's influenced me.

48:21.279 --> 48:34.212
[SPEAKER_07]: And I know my audience well enough to know that most of you listening have experienced some major trauma in your childhood.

48:34.293 --> 48:44.208
[SPEAKER_07]: There are exceptions to the rule, but I've been written enough to know that this is a common link between myself and my fans.

48:44.688 --> 48:50.677
[SPEAKER_07]: So maybe I was under this like obscure true crime umbrella specifically.

48:51.318 --> 48:55.845
[SPEAKER_07]: Maybe a lot of us are connected by childhood trauma.

48:55.825 --> 49:12.834
[SPEAKER_07]: And even if it didn't necessarily bother us at the time, you know, that was developed into our character and folded in and ways that we never expected in sort of showed ourselves into our adult lives.

49:13.635 --> 49:18.383
[SPEAKER_07]: For me, you know, obviously childhood abuse played a role.

49:18.984 --> 49:20.787
[SPEAKER_07]: But then there were other, less

49:20.767 --> 49:23.951
[SPEAKER_07]: dark things that happened to me that likely played a role.

49:24.492 --> 49:28.317
[SPEAKER_07]: My interest in, unsolved mysteries in rescue 911.

49:29.118 --> 49:39.091
[SPEAKER_07]: But no, there's no discounting some events that we go through as childhood in terms of what shapes us, you know?

49:39.832 --> 49:41.374
[SPEAKER_07]: And so, yeah.

49:41.354 --> 49:45.701
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, I don't really worry about it too much these days.

49:46.261 --> 49:52.911
[SPEAKER_07]: In fact, hey, I'll talk to anyone about the sort of abuse I went through as a kid.

49:52.931 --> 49:57.238
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't think it's anything that you should feel ashamed of.

49:57.779 --> 50:03.547
[SPEAKER_07]: And hey, look, I took that negative energy experience in childhood.

50:04.208 --> 50:09.336
[SPEAKER_07]: Turned into a career, so I suppose that there's a silver lining in everything.

50:10.885 --> 50:15.891
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay, from Josh's question, we move on to question four.

50:16.792 --> 50:22.640
[SPEAKER_07]: I was going back through the back catalog once again, and you mentioned two things in an episode.

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[SPEAKER_07]: One was regarding the CIA.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Where you said a lot was left on the cutting ring four.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Care to share what was left down.

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[SPEAKER_07]: The other one you mentioned about possibly going, I'm sorry, doing an episode regarding things that happened because of Minecraft could possibly be the wrong game.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Is that still a possibility?

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[SPEAKER_07]: Keep up the amazing work.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Okay, so as far as the CIA episodes, there is so much to unwrap there.

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[SPEAKER_07]: I did touch on those first two episodes a lot, but really it was just foundational stuff.

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[SPEAKER_07]: it was getting to the fact that yes, the MK Ultra stuff is real.

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[SPEAKER_07]: It's not conspiracy theory.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Well, I guess you can say it's conspiracy, but it's true.

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[SPEAKER_07]: This stuff is mainstream enough that it has its own Wikipedia page.

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[SPEAKER_07]: But it was priming you guys potentially for one day touching on some of the crazier stuff out there.

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[SPEAKER_07]: So maybe from that sort of foundational CIA episodes that I did, I'd like to eventually get into stuff like Charles Manson and Timothy McVay, but not in the way that you normally would think of as well as like the JFK assassination.

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[SPEAKER_07]: There are some stuff surrounding those cases

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[SPEAKER_07]: that, you know, isn't so straightforward.

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[SPEAKER_07]: The Timothy McVay case in general are the Oklahoma City bombing.

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[SPEAKER_07]: That is something that is not straightforward at all.

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[SPEAKER_07]: If you spend any time,

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[SPEAKER_07]: looking into that.

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[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, even the victims that were either directly affected or, you know, first responders, etc., a lot of them banded together to try to get evidence related to that case and the FBI destroyed it.

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[SPEAKER_07]: So, yeah, there's a lot as far as the CIA and FBI that I'd like to touch on more in the future.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Stuff that isn't wacky.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Like I'm telling you, it's not

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[SPEAKER_07]: tin foil type stuff, you know, this is, this is documented things that have happened, but maybe not so often reported on.

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[SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, absolutely, that's something I'd like to return to.

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[SPEAKER_07]: It just can be hard to tell what people are interested in.

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[SPEAKER_07]: I know I do a lot of straightforward

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[SPEAKER_07]: But occasionally, I do like to kind of go a little bit out there.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Like, I think I was one of the earliest podcasts to ever touch on fatal insomnia, for example.

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[SPEAKER_07]: And now, it seems like there's so many YouTube channels and everything that put it in their little dark icebergs and stuff like that.

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[SPEAKER_07]: So I'm kind of proud of getting to that really early.

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[SPEAKER_07]: And you know, I've done other episodes like the SFWA episodes or the episodes on Cabrini Green or just you know, more out there stuff.

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[SPEAKER_07]: So,

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[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I mean, that just comes down to what you guys will stomach, because I have a lot of interests, but I do know that you can go far enough that you just kind of end up completely off track.

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[SPEAKER_07]: An example of that is that, hey, you know, I want to spend a good portion of my time also working on that disaster show, but

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[SPEAKER_07]: It only captured the interest of a portion of my audience, as much as I love creating disaster episodes.

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[SPEAKER_07]: So, that's not to say I won't do that stuff going forward, but just it's less incentivized.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Usually, I have to stick to my bread and butter, and that's to keep everyone happy.

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[SPEAKER_07]: It's not over any sort of.

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[SPEAKER_07]: selling out or anything you could imagine.

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[SPEAKER_07]: It's just that I want everyone to tune in and listen, and when people are maybe less interested in a subject, that sucks for me because I love reading comments.

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[SPEAKER_07]: I love getting messages.

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[SPEAKER_07]: I just, I don't know, I kind of like the feel of like feedback in making you guys happy.

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[SPEAKER_07]: The listeners.

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[SPEAKER_07]: But anyway, that's the four questions for today.

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[SPEAKER_07]: I hope that you enjoyed this format.

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[SPEAKER_07]: I'd like to keep it up going forward.

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[SPEAKER_07]: I have a lot of questions written down, but I would love more.

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[SPEAKER_07]: You guys can ask, whatever you want, and I will do my best to answer it.

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[SPEAKER_07]: remember shoot me a DM on here include a name if you want me to use a name the last question here didn't use a name so I didn't include it.

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[SPEAKER_07]: I'm not going to assume that you want your name or that you have any given nickname without permission.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, I think that wraps things up.

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[SPEAKER_07]: I thank you for